Repairs & Maintenance

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Topic: Rattle in the Velvet Drive
Jagsare1
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Posted: 14 December 2003 at 5:09pm | IP Logged
The transmission has always rattled just a little at dead idle in gear. Give it 100 rpms and the rattle goes away. I am not having a problem but curious as to what causes the rattle and can it be fixed? Also, is this an indication of a future problem. Thanks.
lobsta1
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Posted: 14 December 2003 at 7:00pm | IP Logged
If just ONE cylinder is misfiring at all, that can cause the rattle. Same thing with a misadjusted carb.

Al
1978 Bertram 33Nites Off
DreamCatcher
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Posted: 14 December 2003 at 8:29pm | IP Logged
Let me guess, port transmission - series 5000?
2006 Sea Ray 58 Sedan Bridge
thommy
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Posted: 14 December 2003 at 10:47pm | IP Logged
Is there a reduction gear?
thom
bliss
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Posted: 15 December 2003 at 7:56am | IP Logged
lobsta1 is referring to a condition that I have heard called "gear lash". Just think of your engine spinning at not a perfectly consistant speed. The inconsistency is passed on to your transmission; especially so at low rpm.The result,I am told, is the faces of some gears are not always in perfect contact. as they "rock" they create the noise you hear at low rpm.
I have talked with BW in New Bedford, MA (508 995 2616) and Crusader and they offer little in the way of suggestions. One comment was that over the years the weight of the average flywheel has been reduced and the "smoothness" was negatively effected on some engines. Over time this gear lash can hurt damper plates and the transmissions. I was told to pull my trans missions and change damper plates about 200 hours ago. I put cotton in my ears instead.
Obviously I don't have completely firm grip on this subject. Good luck. JS
brucesboat
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Posted: 15 December 2003 at 10:24am | IP Logged
I had these symptoms on a Crusader 270 with a Velvet Drive. A distributor for transmission parts told me the problem was a worn vibration damper. I changed it and the problem went away.
osprey26
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Posted: 15 December 2003 at 10:56am | IP Logged
I had a bad damper caused the rattle, it eventually broke. I suggest changing it, cost was less than 100.00 for parts.
Mike M2
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Posted: 15 December 2003 at 11:31am | IP Logged
Ok, i need a little help. I have the same problem, a rattle that you hear only at idle and in gear. I'm searching my Vdrive service manuals but can't find a damper. Where is it located?
Mike M2
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bliss
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Posted: 15 December 2003 at 2:57pm | IP Logged
osprey26 says less then $100.00 for parts. Let's say times 2 for my Crusader502/Borg Warner Velvet Drive 5000 twins. Now let's put in a 100% "fudge" factor; we're still under $500.00.
Is there any chance a couple of total dummys can figure this project out and get it done. Maybe with a local expert provideing some consulting?
I'm stored indoors/heated for the winter and would love to replace the dampers;IF I knew to a virtual certainty that we could do it.
Mike M2
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Posted: 15 December 2003 at 4:21pm | IP Logged
Here's what i found out. The Damper isn't listed in the BW parts manual because it isn't considered part of the transmission. The Plate is a triangle shaped chunk of flexable metal the connects the engine flywheel to the transmission. It will require pulling the motor back a foot or two to get inbetween. It doesn't look too bad, biuld an A frame and use a comealong to lift the motor and shift. Most connections have enough play so most won't have to be diconnected(at least in my boat). To determine weather it's the correct problem, use a stethoscope(?) and run motor. Listen to the bell housing for the rattle. It will be a project on my winter list this year!
Mike M2
Rinker 300FV
"My Other Playmate 2"
Kawasaki STX15F(my 65mph dinghy)
"Sailing the Seas of Cheese"

Riverboater
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Posted: 15 December 2003 at 7:50pm | IP Logged
All engines have a bit of a lope at or below idle speed. This causes a backlash in the transmission gears which is what you are hearing. Set the idle up about 25 RPM at a time until the noise goes away. This is normal operation for most V drives with a few hours on them.
Mike M2
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Posted: 15 December 2003 at 8:45pm | IP Logged
V drive lists two ingear noise problems that could be the cause.
From the troubleshooting guide:
#6 Noise in forward and reverse- Misaligned or broken damper or misalignment of output shaft coupling.
#8 Gear noise in forward and/or reverse- V drive bevel gears not properly meshed or gear tooth damage.

Use of a stethascope should let you know where the problem lies.
Mike M2
Rinker 300FV
"My Other Playmate 2"
Kawasaki STX15F(my 65mph dinghy)
"Sailing the Seas of Cheese"

Jagsare1
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Posted: 17 December 2003 at 11:23pm | IP Logged
Dreamcatcher, you scare me. Port trans 5000 series. At this point, I will not try a fix unless it breaks because it has done it for over 3 years and 850 hours with no other problems.  I have 2 engines if it does go. Seems to do it more in the cold weather instead of warm weather. Thanks for all the replies.
Captain Keith
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Posted: 18 December 2003 at 8:39am | IP Logged
Your previous post about an engine misfire kind of ties in with the advice others have given you.  A slight miss or too low an idle will give a torsional vibration causing that rattle.  It is more common with the larger gears like the 5000 or the Hurth 630.  A new HD damper was used on later models and seems to have helped.  The damper is bolted on to the flywheel so both the trans and the flywheel housing have to be removed.  Of course this means the rear engine mounts have to be unbolted and the engine supported.  Not a difficult job but time consuming.  The engine will have to be realigned after the mounts are disturbed.  Try www.marinegears.com the tech talk is pretty good for info.
DreamCatcher
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Posted: 18 December 2003 at 9:29am | IP Logged

Jagsare1,  I had the same transmission on my old boat. The problem was worse for me because the port transmission was also overheating after extended use (3 hours at cruising speed). I also had the rattle at idle. My mechanic, in consultation with Borg Warner, suggested that I put a heavier oil in the transmission. I never got a chance to try this since I traded the boat, but it sure beats pulling engines.

 

 

 

 

 

bliss
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Posted: 18 December 2003 at 2:22pm | IP Logged

 In 1999 I bought a 1996 Silverton 402 with about 70 hours on it. The Borg Warner Velvet Drive 5000s rattled (see above). I had no other problems until about 4 hours into a trip the port Crusader 502 engine/transmission heat sensor brought the rpms down to idle. I was able to continue, but could not get over 1800 rpm. This sensor would trigger this response if either the transmission or the engine overheated. The engine had not overheated. I had several chats with Silverton, Crusader and BW. The fix was to change the now burned transmission fluid and to fill to 1/4 to 1/2 inch above the dip stick "full" mark. Measurements made whole the transmission was COLD. This results in more fluid.  Why did my transmission need more fluid? The answer,though fuzzy, was that not all transmissions are using the same size coolers  and not all installations are pitched at the same angle. Therefore, the dip stick could give a bum answer - hot or cold. I measure cold; even though my manual says to do it hot, because when hot the entire stick gets wet and can't be read. I have had no more overheating. Not all engines have a heat  sensor for the transmission.


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