Posted: 27 May 2006 at 5:46pm | IP Logged

As a beginner boater (to be) have been looking to buy a new small 17ft. boat. Fell in love w/Bayliner 175. Good package price for my budget. Went to another dealer today and asked to see their Stingray 180 (18ft. -- that's their smallest).  They did not have THAT one in stock but they had the 185, and 190.  Told them I'm just starting to look around and told them about Bayliner and of course they "trashed" them (I HATE WHEN THEY DO THAT). Anyway, they said their boat is better.....they have the "Z-Plane Hull" and the "coated" windshield where it doesn't get "hot to touch"(???) and their motor is the Volvo 3.0  135 HP engine. Also has Power Steering and they also said you sit "deeper" in the boat which is safer. Can anyone out there give me feedback? Swampnut, Pascal, you guys reading this???? By the way, "power steering"?  Does that not come automatically? So Bayliner wouldn't be???  Comments/Recommendations PLEASE!

Posted: 27 May 2006 at 6:14pm | IP Logged

I have had 3 bayliners in my life, good boat for the buck.  My current boat is Bayliner Avanti 3450 motoryacht.  It really is matter of bells and whistles.  I sold Bayliner and Maxum boats for local dealer.  The gelcoat and hull design is the same in Bayliner, Maxum and Searay, as they are all owned by Brunswick.   The difference is the level of amenties, etc.  So go for the Bayliner, it is national builder owned by one the biggest recreational companies in the US.

For reference, some of bad rap on Bayliner comes from the 80's, and old raps are hard to die!

Posted: 27 May 2006 at 6:28pm | IP Logged

bsanderson, thanks. I'm ready to buy the Bayliner 175 (perfect size/nice package and price for me, a brand new beginner). Just so happen to see this boat dealer ad so I stopped in. Of course they put the Stingray on a pedestal but I can't find any consumer websites that include "Stingray". I don't even see Stingray on the lists under boat reviews, etc. So do Bayliners have "power steering?"

Posted: 27 May 2006 at 7:38pm | IP Logged

Power steering is standard with the 4.3L V6 motors.  May or may not be available as an option on the Merc 3L.  High pressure salesmen turn me off too.  Here is another thread that may help -

http://my.boatus.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=52371

And another site -

http://small-bowriders.cooksathome.com/

Kelly Cook

Posted: 28 May 2006 at 5:39am | IP Logged

I would consider the Sting Ray and the Bayliner to be similar. . . and the differences would be minor (options, etc.)

Bayliner built themselves a nice history of being a low-end boat, perhaps too low-end.  In order to compete, the have stepped it up a notch or two.

The salesman is splitting hairs, so go with what you like.  I'm more partial to the Sting Ray.

Posted: 28 May 2006 at 7:03am | IP Logged

Since Bayliner builds FAR more boats than Stingray (inventory not a concern), and the fact the salesperson was, well...living up to his profession's reputation while knocking Bayliner's reputation from 20 years ago, I'd find another dealer. 

I would have laughed in his face and walked away when he said "Non-refundable check".  Would you go to an auto dealership to test drive a new $20-25K car and leave a non-refundable check?

Besides, in two years that salesperson will probably be selling Bayliners and will be trashing Stingrays!  --Garrett

Posted: 28 May 2006 at 8:19am | IP Logged

There are a couple of ,IMHO, important features/options (depending on which manufacturer you choose) that you should consider as well as looks. 

A biggy is a full fiberglass liner in the cockpit over a cockpit of marine plywood with glued down carpeting.  Being able to remove the carpet is a great advantage.  To clean up at the end of the day. pull it out, hose down the cockpit and put the carpet back in.  Watersports, take it out and leave it at home.

Many builders using the 3.0l engines offer power steerining as an option.  Power Steering just lakes life a touch easier.

Also, look at warranty.  Many builders offer multi-year plans on the hull and structure but the components that make up the boat such as the bilge pump, battery isolators, stereos, guages, nav lights, etc fall under the manufactures warranty after the first year.  For examples, on my Four Winns cruiser the battery isolator was just replaced.  Four Winns replaced it under their three year stem to stern warranty.  Many manufacturers would say, yep it's under warranty by the manufacturer, you will have to deal with them to get it replaced.  Also, my Four Winns warranty covers such things as the A/C which has only a one year limited warranty, they cover it for the three.

Also, and maybe one of the biggest is the dealer itself.  A dealer that offers good support after the sale can make or break your boating experience.  Many dealers will treat you as not so important after they have your money.  Boat dealers are no where close to car dealers when ic comes to after sales support.  There are dealers out there that will not service your boat even though they sell the brand if you didn't buy it from them.  Or, they will but their custoimers take priority and you go to the back of the line.  You don't want the boat waiting for a repair sitting in their lot for a month(s), you want to use it.

That being said, there are a bunch of manufactures that offer small bowriders you are interested in:

Bayliner, Stingray ( the two you mentioned) as well as Larson, Four Winns, Glastron, Maxum, Sea Ray, Rinker, etc.

Boattest.com has a lot of good reviews with some video.  For example, here is the link for the Four Winns 180 Horizon

http://www.boattest.com/oem/general-info.aspx?ID=987&lp_ id=381

Posted: 28 May 2006 at 8:24am | IP Logged

Hey, wannabe, if you want, We can meet up and I can give you a bit of on water experience with my FW 170 Freedom.  You would be in a bit better position in dealing with some of the salesmen in knowing truth from some of the sales hype.  You would aslo feel a bit more comfy when seatrialing the potential new boat after a bit of "helm" time.

Here is a photo of "Mini-Me"

Any excuse for me to get out on the water I take

Posted: 28 May 2006 at 10:48am | IP Logged

OH MY GOD! Jvalich, your Mini-Me is exactly the size and looks that I've had my eye on.  Forgive me for my "minimal" knowledge of boating terminology.....what does IMHO stand for? So when you talk about the marine plywood glued down v. the removable carpet........is it Bayliner that's glued, or Stingray???  I am touched by your kind offer of giving me water experience!  I just sent you an email...........hope it went through as it first gave me an error message.

Swampnut, I agree.....thanks for the points about the motors and the power steering.  Thanks guys for all your input.   Everyone has opened up my eyes to a lot!

Posted: 28 May 2006 at 7:26pm | IP Logged

Swampnut, (hahaha---how embarrassing-Thanks for explaining the terminology. Well, IMHO  :-)  I would love to have that boating experience opportunity. Jvalich does not live too far from me. Guess I'll have to wait and see.  BTW (now THAT one I know! :-)  I have put the "removable carpet" on my "list of things to look for when I go back to Bayliner"....that list keeps getting longer and longer but it's going to be very helpful. One of things on that list is "battery switch"....the marina told me to make sure the boat has that so they know everything is "shut off" on the boat. I'm assuming that is not something that boats automatically come with? So it would be an option to have added?----that's on my list, along with "fume detector"......which I get the impression would be an option---Pascal mentioned that in one of the posts when I was worried about starting the engine!

Posted: 29 May 2006 at 7:58am | IP Logged

The Bay 175 is the base boat they started selling a couple of years ago.  It's inexpensive because the boat is built in Mexico.  It does not offer a fiberglass liner, only glued carpet from what I can see on the bay website.  You have to go to the 185 Bay in order to get a fiberglass liner option for an additional $730. 

I can't find an option for a fiberglass liner on the Stingray 180 either.  The other tings I see with the Stingray is very limited cockpit space because of the full sunpad and bench seat.

Swamp's right.  A lot of the little things such as a battery on/off switch can be easily added.  I did it to Mini-Me for less than $30 and 30 minutes of my time.  Some features that add value and can't be added once the boat is built is what you need to focus on at purchase.  Examples: fiberglass flooring, quality and construction of the windshield, quality of the seating including the way they are constructed and finishing of the storage areas ( raw glass, carpet, or gell coated), easy engine access for quick checks, hull to deck joint construction and it's capping with a rubrail, etc.  Items such as an  auto bilge switch, remote stereo switch, battery on /off switch, compass, etc can easily be added.

I'm sure it sounds daunting.  It's just knowing what is good, better and best with each of these items and also determining what is important to you and deteriming if you may want to spend a touch more to get a bit better quality.  Not much different that choosing a car.  Do I buy the Chevy Cobalt and save some or spend a bit more for the Honda Civic?

Posted: 29 May 2006 at 11:20am | IP Logged

I will be using the boat for "relaxing weekends" on LAKES

Then those lakes had better be quiet ones.  The popular lakes get stirred up by traffic on weekends.  Which results in chop.  Which will hardly be a "relaxing" experience in a 175 class boat.  I would rather spend the same $$ on a better used boat.  In fact, that is what I did.  No regrets.

Kelly

Posted: 29 May 2006 at 8:47pm | IP Logged

Shamrock22 wrote: Stingray has an owner's website you may want to ask about the boat there.  I think the Stingray is a little better boat and the Volvo is a much better drive.

 I agree.  I owned a Stingray bowrider and it was a great boat for the price.  The owner's forum was great, I miss that.

The Stingray will have power steering, I believe the lowest price Bayliner does not.

http://www.stingrayboats.com/

Posted: 30 May 2006 at 10:10am | IP Logged

Just wanted to chime in on couple of issues.  In regards to the Bayliner not having a fiberglass liner.  Yes a liner is great, but Bayliner keeps cost down by using a wood floor with carpet glued down.  These wood floors are what most manufacturers are using in the industry.  It what the call an XL panel, some manufactures believe so strongly in this product that they warrant it for life.  So do not be afraid of a wood floor vs. fiberglass.  Now the liner is nice, but it will cost you. 

Secondly, the comment that Volvo is better then Mercrusier.  I disagree.  Compare these features between V vs. M.  Merc remotes gear lube fill and inspection to inside the boat.  Volvo still uses dip stick on top of sterndrive, just more holes in drive to get water in lube.  Also, if you pull on the drain plug in the stern of Bayliner, out comes a black hose attached in which you can drain your oil into pan outside the boat.  On 3.0L Merc, you can drain the engine block by disconnecting the two black hoses on the portside (they have quick release connectors), drop ithem in bilge and the block drains.  There is a convenient T-Handle system which pulls the hoses back up for re-connecting.  Simple differences which improves life for the do it yourselfer.

Cheers,

Posted: 30 May 2006 at 9:34pm | IP Logged

Quote: Compare these features between V vs. M.  Merc remotes gear lube fill and inspection to inside the boat.  Volvo still uses dip stick on top of sterndrive, just more holes in drive to get water in lube.

Please explain how Merc get the lube from the drive to the reservior inside the engine space with out a hole?  Magic?

Volvo's don't need a reservior because they don't lose lube like a Merc!

Oil comes out of  Volvo by way of a fitting on the dipstick.  Warm the engine, suck it out.  Lickity split.

Posted: 31 May 2006 at 10:01am | IP Logged

jvalich wrote:

Please explain how Merc get the lube from the drive to the reservior inside the engine space with out a hole?  Magic?

Volvo's don't need a reservior because they don't lose lube like a Merc!

Oil comes out of  Volvo by way of a fitting on the dipstick.  Warm the engine, suck it out.  Lickity split.

------------------------------------------------------------ -----------------------------
Gear lube reservior is on the port side of engine, at the front.  It is a see through tank and it has an hose which runs through the cut out for drive into the drive leg.  I have not heard of Merc losing lube.  I understood it to be for convenience not to correct some problem.   Now I personally do not use sterndrive power anymore, I am fan of Inboard V-drives. 

My experinece with Volvo drive was 4 cylinder and I do remember using engine oil in the drive and you are right it does flow out easier then lube.

Wanabeboater mentioned the United States Power Squadrons.  It is great group for boating education.  If you become a member we have internal classes like engine maintenance, marine electronics, cruise planning, piloting, advance piloting, etc.

I suggest you join, I did, and I have enjoyed the education, social and community aspects of this organization.  I also served on the bridge of our local squadron serving as Commander.  Very rewarding experience, so I invite all to become members of USPS.

Cheers,

Posted: 31 May 2006 at 11:33am | IP Logged

bsanderson

The features you mention, while nice don't fix the what I see as design flaws in the Merc nor do they address the issue of Merc standing behind its product.

In my experience in working on my mercruiser drive, I have found what I see as some poor designs.  I had a 350 alpha 1 gen II drive and it used a plastic pulley on the power steering pump.  Plastic.  Guess what, it broke just like my next door neighbor's, my brother's and everyone else I know with that engine and drive.  Did Merc do a recall?  No Way.  However they were happy to sell me a kit that had a metal pulley and resized belt at full price.  Did they update the design?  Of course which indicates it was poor from the start but they would not fix outside of warranty. 

It is my belief that Merc was less than stellar in there response to both the Bravo 3 corrosion issue and the big block water ingestion issue.  I think Caroline has posted that Mercury Marine is an extremely difficult company to deal with.   There were stories when the big blocks in Sea Ray's had the water ingestion issues that Sea Ray blamed Merc and Merc blamed Sea Ray.  Both are Brunswick companies so why didn't they just take care of it internally?

And lets not even start the dog Vs. Cone clutch lower unit debate.   

Wannanbe I think you should do research and talk to owners of both boats and drives if possible.  I see Stingray has links to reviews on its website to some magazine reviews.  Good luck and enjoy your purchase. 

Posted: 10 May 2007 at 7:50pm | IP Logged

jonw9 wrote: Sorry to bump a year old thread, but I was wondering if the OP is still around, what the final decision was.  I am in kinda the same situation.  I am considering an used boat, to save $, but I like the security of new. One thing I see between the Bayliners and Stingrays are the rays have an 1100 GPH automatic bilge pump, and the BL only have a 500 GPH manual  pump.  I don't know how much of a difference this is.

That's pretty insignificant.  I like Stingrays, I had an 18' model for a year until my wife said she needed a place to go potty.  That was permission enough to go to a cruiser. 

The Stingray will probably go a little faster with identical engines and will get a little better fuel mileage because of the hull design.  Just a little.

Choose the one that you and your family like the best.